Breaking Rules at Our Age

What sexual “rules” have you broken since turning 50, 60, or beyond?

I ask this because I discovered from the interviews and reader stories that you'll read in  Naked at Our Age: Talking Out Loud about Senior Sex, many of us make some pretty drastic changes in our lives after age 50. Maybe we get divorced,  discover love, open up our marriage, take a new lover, experiment with kink or multiple partners or virtual sex -- or some combination of these or other alternatives.

The point is that although society sees us as settled into mid-life or old age, we're far from "settled." I think there's something about emerging from menopause that makes us question where we want to be in our lives. Menopause often feels like an upheaval -- I've described it before as "PMS on steroids" -- where everything seems upside down. We don't want to be responsible for remembering the whole family's appointments, for example, and we might not be overly kind when we tell family members to take care of themselves.

After the upheaval settles, we see our lives differently. We realize that it's now or never: it's up to us to invent -- or reinvent -- what we want the rest of our lives to be, and what we have to do to actively go after our dreams.

At the same time, in our sexual world, the old ways may not work any more. We may need different kinds of arousal or even a different type of relationship or a different partner. Major!

I got so many stories from my Naked at Our Age interviewees about alternative sex practices that this topic became a whole chapter: "Off the Beaten Path: Nontraditional Sex Practices and Relationships." People wrote about swinging, polyamory, BDSM, friends with benefits, older women/younger men (20-30 years difference!), phone sex, and more.

I predicted that younger readers would be shocked at what seniors are doing behind closed doors, and I should have guessed that it would shock our own age group, too. I've heard a couple of criticisms that this chapter and the one titled "Hiring Sensuality" (which I won't tell you about -- you have to read that one for yourself, and no, it's not just men hiring sex!) make it sound like I'm endorsing or even pushing people towards alternative lifestyles.

I'm not pushing anyone into anything. I'm showing senior sex -- behaviors and attitudes -- in all its colors and stripes. Personally, I support adults doing with other consenting adults whatever brings them pleasure, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone -- including the partners of those consenting adults. I have "vanilla" tastes myself, but that's beside the point. The book is only partly about me. It's really about you... and you... and you.

So back to my original question: What sexual “rules” have you broken since turning 50, 60, or beyond?  By rules I mean society's rules, the law, unspoken or spoken rules in a relationship, even your own rules. I'd love to see a dialogue start here. Please comment!

Naked at Our Age: Talking Out Loud about Senior Sex is now available! Order an autographed copy directly from me -- be sure to let me know to whom to autograph it -- by clicking the PayPal button below...

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Learn more about Naked at Our Age: Talking Out Loud About Senior Sex here.

22-year-old man: "How to approach older women?"

Feb. 12, 2010 update: I'm bringing this older post up to the front again because of all the questions I'm getting on the same subject. I get more emails from younger men -- age 18 to 40something -- who are attracted to much older women (usually 60+) than any other topic!

So I'm resurrecting this post and inviting comments from both young men about what attracts them to older women and from older women about how a younger man can find them and make contact. Are any of the online dating sites especially good to help younger/older connect?

Note: I am NOT matchmaking here, though many young men have begged me to post their email addresses. No, can't do that, folks. And guys, please don't ask me personally to hook up with you! That kind of request -- yes, I do get them -- feels creepy, and I won't even answer to tell you to stop it. Just stop it. And no, I don't need to know how big your penis is.

So, that said -- what do you younger men and older women want to ask or say? Please post a comment here. And please see other posts on this topic here.

Leopardy is a 22-year-old male in Australia who likes older women. He emailed this story to me:

I've had 2 women in my life (sexually only). Great fun, I must admit, but it tears you apart when the bad has to come up. I like older women for their maturity and for their gorgeous features, such as lips, hips, legs, and fragrance, mmmmmmm. I admit I find it rather hard to find the perfect older woman as they all tend to lead me on then shoot me off which hurts like hell.

I met a woman online back in 2004. After 3 months chatting I gave her my details and she came up here. We had sex, and then she really got abusive and threatened me with police threats etc. She told her so-called friends about me and said what a pathetic useless peice of shit I was.

I'd like to know how to approach older women. I just want a woman that can understand me, one that takes me for who I am and NOT degrade me in any way.

Thank you for been so supportive and having a wonderful site. I can't even recall how I got hold of your site, but I was amazed and immediately added it to my favourites.

Leopardy, I encourage you to get to know the older women who attract you before you jump into bed with them. Those who are looking for quick fun probably won't value you the way you want. It's fine to seek a match online, but if you seem to connect, please take some time dating and becoming friends so that you know who she is and she knows you.

That might mean you don't get the instant pleasure and excitement of sex with a stranger who seems to fit your fantasy, but if what you're looking for is a respectful relationship, that takes time to unfold and nurture.

That doesn't answer your question about how to approach older women. I'll repeat the suggestions I gave Sean:

1. Converse, listen (very important!), and flirt as you would with a woman of any age. Yes, she'll recognize the signs. She might be shy about letting you see her signs, in case she fears she's misreading yours, so keep her talking.

2. Don't rush things along -- she wants to know she interests you as a person, not just a potential bed partner.

3. Look into her eyes a lot. Really listen and respond to what she's saying.

4. Lean towards her to give the body signal that you're interested. Watch for these signs from her: eye contact; leaning towards you; arms relaxed (not crossed in front of chest); playing with hair, clothing, or jewelry.

5. After a nice, long conversation, where you feel there's a connection, you might ask her outright: "I wonder if there's any reason I should not ask you out."

6. If she says, "I'm old enough to be your mother," you can ask, "I really like the maturity and intelligence of older women. The question is, am I too young to interest you?"

7. If you're really brave, carry a copy of my book, Better Than I Ever Expected: Straight Talk about Sex After Sixty and carry it around. When she asks about the book, say something like, "I find older women very attractive, and I hope this book will help me understand them better -- in all ways."

I'd love to hear from readers about this topic. I know many readers come to my blog seeking information about older women/younger men relationships, so please contribute yours.

-- Joan

"im 19 looking for an older granny"

hey joan im 19 looking for an older granny that i can meet and have a relationship with.how can i do this

This is an actual email I received, similar to others, unfortunately. Instead of simply deleting it, I'm going to answer this question once and for all:

1. I don't know any sexually inclined women of our age who respond to being perceived as "an older granny."

2. We grew up being educated to use capital letters at the beginnings of sentences, names, and for the word "I." Not doing this makes you appear uneducated and/or in too much of a hurry to bother. If you're in that much of a rush that you can't press the shift key once in a while, think about what you're conveying to an older woman as the kind of sexual partner you'd be.

3. You may have found me by skimming my blog, but you obviously didn't read it carefully or you would have seen the "younger men older women" label, with several posts on this topic. Read them!

For younger men who have a serious and respectful interest in a relationship with an older woman who might be open to you, I'm going to reframe some points I've made before:

Get out and do the social activities you enjoy, where you'll meet women who enjoy the same activities. That way, it's easy to strart a conversation with a stranger because you already have something in common to talk about.

Once you spy a woman who attracts you, do NOT use the "Hey, you're hot and I love older women, wanna go to my place?" approach. Instead, open the conversation with comments on the activity you're sharing or ask her for advice, e.g., depending on where you are and what you're doing,

(Dance venue:) You're a really good dancer -- would you dance the next one with me?"

(Bookstore:) "Have you read any books by this author?"

(Gym:) "Your workout is obviously working for you -- you look terrific. Do you recommend the aerobics classes here?"

(She's reading a Kindle:) "Oh, you have a Kindle! Do you mind telling me how you like it?

(Park:) "How far does this trail go? Does it loop back or will I get hopelessly lost?"

And so on. I based these examples on activities I do, places I go, and comments that would get my attention and start a conversation. Of course you need to modify the topics by what you're doing. (I'm only covering face-to-face meetings here -- online meetings are entirely different.)

Most important advice of all: You may be hoping to share the sheets with an older woman, but you need to show her that you appreciate her as a person and value more than her genitals. You also need to show her that you're an interesting person yourself. Remember that her most vital sex organ is her brain, and you've got to make contact there first.

Younger Men Seeking Older Women

I get frequent emails from men age 19-40+ who are attracted to women age 50-70+. They ask me how to meet women who might be open to a relationship with a much younger man.

I also hear from women who are surprised by -- and welcome! -- a younger man's interest, and others who would rather not date someone younger than their son. An example in that last camp is "Granny B" who describes her blog this way:

GrannyBoogies on the highway of life!
The life and adventures of a senior woman looking for her last Love. Is there sex after 70? Do senior dating services work? Will Granny find her soul mate?

Granny B recently posted about being pursued by a younger man via an online dating site. I posted this comment on her blog:

On my blog about sex and aging, I hear from younger men all the time who are attracted to older women and ask how to connect with them. These men say they value the woman's experience, self-knowledge, ease of communication in and out of bed. If you're honestly not attracted to a man younger than your son (every man is somebody's son!), then you're right to send him on his way gently. But if you're intrigued, you might get to know him!

Many of the younger men who write me describe warm memories about being introduced to sex by an older woman. Others tell me they respond to the wisdom and maturity of an older woman.

Check out my other posts on this subject.

Note to the men who want to talk about this. Yes, I welcome your comments here and your emails to me, but please -- we're talking about this subject with dignity. Do not send me your masturbatory fantasies or make me the object of them! (Please don't be insulted by this request -- I'm only saying this because it has happened a few times and that's not what this blog is about.)

Man, 41, attracted to women, 60-70+

I hear from men frequently who want to date older women and ask how to find/ attract/ approach the women they desire. I hear from very young men (teens and 20s) who had their first -- and wonderful! -- sexual experience with a much older woman and want to recapture the joy. I hear from men in their 30s and 40s who are drawn to the wisdom, experience, and beauty in women decades older. For example, TW wrote me recently:

I am a 41-year-old male. I don't have any problem attracting women around my own age. That is fairly easy for me. But, I do have great difficulties attracting women who are much older than I am.

I am mostly attracted to older women who are in their 60s and 70s. I am not looking for a serious relationship. Just casual dating with someone I can see occasionally with the possibility of intimacy or sex. I don't where to go to meet older women. I've tried some internet dating sites. The women on those sites respond by sending me an email telling me that I am too young or that they have a problem with the age difference.

I welcome anyone's ideas and suggestions. Especially from men who have had successful experiences with older women. Also, I greatly welcome any suggestions from older women themselves.

Personally, I advise TW to get out and do the social activities he enjoys, where he'll meet women who enjoy the same activities. That way, it's easy to strart a conversation with a stranger because you already have something in common to talk about. Someone like TW would meet someone like me, for example, social dancing or at bookstores, coffee shops, gyms, walking trails, and vegetarian restaurants.

Once TW spies a woman who attracts him, I would NOT suggest the "Hey, you're hot and I love older women, wanna go to my place?" approach. Instead, open the conversation with comments on the activity you're sharing or ask her for advice, e.g., depending on where you are and what you're doing,

"You're a really good dancer -- would you dance the next one with me?"
"Have you read any books by this author?"
"Your workout is obviously working for you -- you look terrific. Do you recommend the aerobics classes here?"

And so on. You may be hoping to share the sheets with her, but you still need to show her that you appreciate more than her genitals. Remember that her most vital sex organ is her brain.


Readers, I invite you to add your own experiences and tips for TW. If you are a 60+-year-old woman who would delight in a fling with a man 2+ decades younger than you, how would you suggest that someone like TW find someone like you? (I'm not offering to play matchmaker, realize, just wanting to help TW know where to look.) If you're a man who has had experience dating older women, please share your experiences.

You can post a comment here, or email me and I'll post it for you. (Try to ride the thin line, please, between candor, which my readers like, and graphic details/street language, which they do not!)

Man, 20, loves "slow burning flame" of late-40's lover

I received a powerful email from Elliot, age 20, who is in a passionate relationship with a woman in her late forties. He writes:

My lover and I are very affectionate, very loving and ultimately very content with each other. Personally, I enjoy the pace, as I am not given a time limit on anything, much less anything sexual. I am given a reign of freedom that most men would divorce for, and my lover herself is so passionate yet so trusting and warm, and dare I say it, cuddly, that she presents the very thing that I have yearned for, yet never found in women my age!

This slow-burning flame I have the fortune to enjoy day after day is something I find much more cosy, more inviting, but finally something that can truly blaze with raw passion, rather than the all-consuming forest fires I seem to find so common in anyone my age. After all, I want to be warm, secure and loved, not burnt over and over again.

So what, in the above paragraph, involves some sort of magic age limit? Where does the question of age come into this? As I write this, I found myself needing to ask my lover what her age actually was, as we see it as something so inconsequential, something so trivial and ultimately so near enough to pointless that I don't even try to remember it. If my wants and desires are met, does it matter if that person is anything between 18 and 65? Of course not. If I find the perfect lover, her age is practically meaningless..

I want a woman who I can cradle lovingly in my arms and read quietly to, so that she will dream a wonderous dream while she sleeps. I want a woman who can be so very vixen in her nature, but so very kitten in her love when she chooses either. I want a woman who is as intelligent as she is loving, with a quiet intensity, but most of all, with a love for being orally pleasured until she passes out after god only knows how long. Where, I ask you, can I find these qualities in a better way than choosing an older woman?

I honestly believe that I must have undergone some major task, some amazing feat in a previous life, to be rewarded with an almost perfect bliss day after day. No, I choose to keep my bliss close to my heart, rather than trying a younger girl, and honestly? When I masturbate when she is not with me, visions of younger girls don't do it for me anymore. She's the one flame I have eyes for.

Older Women, Younger Men: Let's hear from the women, too

My most popular posts are the older women/younger men topics -- most viewed, most comments and emails, and most frequently searched with phrases like "older woman young man sex" and "granny sex" (which I understand is not a pejorative term in other English-speaking countries, so I'll get used to it!). Yet the comments and emails I receive are almost all from the younger men, not the older women who are involved with them. I'd love to hear from the women, too, about your experiences, your feelings at the time, and your perspective now. You can either comment here or email me with permission to post your comment.

Let me assure the women and men who write me that any identifying information will remain confidential, and of course you can comment directly anonymously or with a pseudonym.

Yes, I get requests from younger men begging me to hook them up with older women, but I don't/won't get into that. There are websites that specialize in older women/younger men, and I'd love to know which ones, if any, you've viewed and found dignified and not in any way predatory.

I'll be including this topic in my new book. I'm still accepting interviews, so please contact me if you're interested in receiving my questionnaire.

Personally, I used to date younger men almost exclusively right up until the time I met Robert when I was 57 and he was 64. (At 64 and 71, we just celebrated our second wedding anniversary!) Until Robert, I found younger men more open-minded and energetic, less set in their ways, and more appreciative of what an older woman had to offer. But this all got blown away when I fell in love with Robert and discovered the man I'd been looking for my whole life. An older man can offer all those qualities I used to seek in younger men, yet with the wisdom of experience and relationship skills.

This makes me think that a long life being single before settling down might be just right to let us experience the qualities of youth, the qualities of age, and any mixture that might entice us!

I'd love to hear from you!

Younger Men Who Desire Older Women

5/15/2008 update: I'm pulling this post up to the top again because of the intriguing comments that continue to come in. For example, be sure to read Mark's second comment, where he says,

In every experience I have had, even those in which it was clear the woman was looking for little more than a boy toy, I always felt valued and well treated. I'm not sure that is always (or even usually) the case when a younger woman gets involved with an older man. Mature women, on the other hand, generally seem to take better care of everyone and everything around them, even their toys. It just seems to be part of their nature. Any thoughtfulness, respect and consideration that's directed at them is responded to in kind.

I never thought of it this way, Mark. It's true that when I was involved several times with much younger men as an older woman, I treated them with great affection and respect, and they treated me the same (except when they didn't, but those are stories that belong somewhere else). I never, never saw them as "toys," though I know some women do, but as wonderful human beings with whom it was my joy to share sensuality and intimacy.

Mark, I've discovered, has a blog of his own here celebrating his relationships with older women.

Readers, if the comments don't automatically display for you below this post, click "comments" and you'll see them. And I hope you'll post your own!

4/23/08 update: Since the January 2008 post reprinted below, I've continued to receive comments and emails from men who love older women. A few ask me to act as a matchmaker for hookups (sorry, that's not my job, but I wish you luck), but most of the men who write earnestly wish to communicate how sexy they find older women. For example, Derek sent me this recent email:

I read your posts on older women/younger men, and granny sex, with great interest and wanted to commend you on them. I'm in my mid-thirties and for many years have been attracted to women much older than me. While I've had great relationships with women my age and younger, the most satisfying relationships have been with women many years my senior. I find the combination of worldliness, wisdom, sexual experience and a lush, mature body completely irresistable. I've been with a number of women in their 60s, some of whom have been older than my mother and/or have children older than me. My lover of several years is in her late 60s, and we continue to enjoy a wonderful relationship that, in addition to friendship and mutual support, includes regular 4-hour lovemaking sessions, fantasy weekends away, and the most potent physical chemistry I've known. It's heavenly. Also, as you seem to be noticing this type of relationship, while very alternative, is being enjoyed by a LOT of people. I hope you give this topic more coverage on your blog.

My original January 2008 post follows here:

The questions and comments from young men who desire older women keep coming. They crave older women. They revere older women. And yes, they find older women incredibly sexy.

I’m not talking about age differences of five or ten years – I mean decades. Here are some samples from my email and from comments on my other blog posts:

· I am 19 years old and love older women. They are much sexier than anything else I can imagine. It’s the feeling of that they have so much to teach you sexually. I have had sex with an older woman and would do it again in a heartbeat.

· I'm male, 27, and just this Christmas had a brief encounter with a mature woman. It was wonderful. We met via internet dating, a good way to meet like-minded people, and she actually approached me first. It just so happens I like older women and she likes men around my age. We had an amazing day and later on she joined me at a hotel. It was like a fantasy come true. Amazing company, amazing sex too and a really warm and loving woman. She will turn 43 this month, and my goodness what a connection we had that day.

· I am 26 and have no problem getting dates with women my age. I'm a young professional and have confidence in my abilities with women my age. However, I am incredibly attracted to older women. I find such beauty in maturity. I work in a professional environment where I am around professional older women all the time. I can't help but fantasize about them. There is something about a woman who is well versed, educated, smart, and mature that drives me wild. Is this wrong? And if it's not, do older women even take men my age seriously?

· I wish I could find an older woman who doesn't say I am too young to have sex with her. I am 21 by the way.

· I am a 49-year-old single man, and I have always been fond of sex with older ladies. In all honesty they drive me wild. I have no interest in any ladies younger than me. Presently have a few senior neighbours.... jeez I only wish.

Some of the younger man who write tell me that their first sexual experience was with a much older woman, and they still treasure the experience:

· I lost my virginity to a woman who was 59 and it was brilliant. She was old enough to be my grandmother and I had known her since I was 5 or 6. I know many people will read this and think that I am making this up but I’m truly not. I loved having sex with her.

· I have always been attracted to older women. I had short relationships with a 60-something-year-old woman when I was 15; a 40-ish woman when I was19; and a woman in her late 30's when I was 21. For me it was a way to have sex, enjoy sex, learn about sex, and experience the whole thing in a sincere, loving way, in a stress-free atmosphere. It was so nice to make love to someone who was calm, enjoyed the experience and could be trusted. A bonus for me was that my older lovers expressed being flattered at being desired by an attractive young man. It felt great to be in this princely or studly role. I’m now 50 and have been married 27 years to my best friend. I find her even more attractive as she gets older, and she likes this.

· I'm 18. I just recently completed a life-long dream of having an older woman take my virginity and teaching me the ways. The only thing is it was a one-time deal but now I'm hooked on older women. I love their maturity and knowledge.

I often hear from single women who complain that men their age are seeking younger women and don’t seem to value what an older woman brings to a relationship, both in and out of bed. These comments from young men show an interesting flip of the coin, don’t you think? Of course I’m not recommending staking out the local teen center to get a date, but don’t rule out mature young men who express interest in you, if you feel interest and attraction, also.

I’m posting these comments today to invite more discussion from young men in this situation, older men remembering these experiences, and from women of all ages. I look forward to reading your thoughts.

(Note: On other blog posts on this subject , I discussed some of the questions these young men have, such as how to meet older women, talk to them, and read their signals.)

Looking for "Granny Sex"?

OK, I have to ask you -- if you arrived at this site because you typed "granny sex" into your search engine, what were you hoping or expecting to find? I'm sincerely curious! Were you hoping to find an affirmation of older-age sexuality? (if so, you're in the right place!) Or did you use those search words because you're intrigued by what your grandmother might be doing behind closed doors? Or because you expect to get a giggle from a site that makes fun of elder sex? I'm just wondering... I hope you'll comment!

If you're wondering why I'm asking this, it turns out that many people arrive here because they searched "granny sex." Far more of you search by "sexy seniors" or "senior sex" or "sex after sixty," and that makes sense. But this "granny sex" idea puzzles me, and I hope you'll respond! (You can either click "comments" below or email me, your choice.

2/6/08 update: As readers continue to use "granny sex" in emails to me and comments on this blog, as well as the search words that bring you here, I've come to understand that the term is not meant disrespectfully. In fact, a few of you have written me using "granny sex" quite lovingly. Is this term used outside the US more commonly than it is here, I wonder...?

Young Man Desires Older Women

Sean writes from Wisconsin,

I am 26 and have no problem getting dates with women my age. I'm a young professional and have confidence in my abilities with women my age. However, I am incredibly attracted to older women. I don't want to say anything to friends because it feels abnormal, but I find such beauty in maturity. I work in a professional environment where I am around professional older women all the time. I can't help but fantasize about them. I'm sure part of it is that my hormones are going crazy, but there really is something more to it. There is something about a woman who is well versed, educated, smart, and mature that drives me wild. Is this wrong? And if it's not, do older women even take men my age seriously? When I'm talking to someone my age, it's easy to read and give signs, because it's commonplace for people in my age group to make a romantic connection - it's on people's minds. In conversation with an older woman, that assumption isn't there. Is there anything you feel will work better for making a signal to an older woman? Are there any phrases (not pick-up lines) that would serve as cues? What should I look for?

Sean, I'm discovering that many young men are attracted to older women for exactly the reasons you say: "something about a women who is well versed, educated, smart, and mature." Believe me, many women would jump at the chance to get to know you if they knew about you. Some suggestions for approaching an older woman who interests you:

1. Converse, listen (very important!), and flirt as you would with a woman of any age. Yes, she'll recognize the signs. She might be shy about letting you see her signs, in case she fears she's misreading yours, so keep her talking.

2. Don't rush things along -- she wants to know she interests you as a person, not just a potential bed partner.

3. Look into her eyes a lot. Really listen and respond to what she's saying.

4. Lean towards her to give the body signal that you're interested. Watch for these signs from her: eye contact; leaning towards you; arms relaxed (not crossed in front of chest); playing with hair, clothing, or jewelry.

5. After a nice, long conversation, where you feel there's a connection, you might ask her outright: "I wonder if there's any reason I should not ask you out."

6. If she says, "I'm old enough to be your mother," you can ask, "I really like the maturity and intelligence of older women. The question is, am I too young to interest you?"

7. If you're really brave, carry a copy of my book, Better Than I Ever Expected: Straight Talk about Sex After Sixty and carry it around. When she asks about the book, say something like, "I find older women very attractive, and I hope this book will help me understand them better -- in all ways."

I wrote about the experiences of Judy, 62, who loved men in their twenties in Older Women, Younger Men last September. Let's keep talking about this, because I know it is a fantasy of many older women and younger men, and for some, it's a passionate reality.

Older Woman, Younger Men

Recently Judy, age 62, who attended my Ask Me, I'll Tell You workshop, emailed me a description of her special "niche of passion:"

Here's what Judy has to say:

I'm interested in the special challenges of over 60 women with under 25 men. This has been my preference for many years.

Contrary to expectations there seems to be a wealth of available men for me. Perhaps it is the "sex only for the pure joy of it" idea; I have offers pretty much daily.

I don't pay but treat the young men with respect and a great deal of motherly (grandmotherly!) concern. Our relationships have lots of laughs and energy. ever see the movie Harold and Maude?

Currently I live with 4 young men under 25. All are affectionate, and watch each other to see if I have a favorite. (I tell them I love them all equally.)

Then there are numerous lovers from outside the house who visit. This is as close to heaven as I can get. It would be fun to meet another grandma who has found this niche of passion.

Are there other women out there who love men much younger? Share your stories, please!